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Huxley on Propaganda by Skargill Huxley on Propaganda by Skargill
Another quote, this time about propaganda. Image is a UKIP poster, somehow it seemed fitting.
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:iconskargill:
Skargill Featured By Owner May 28, 2014  Hobbyist Photographer
"and what they have said is true. "

No it isn't, first the combined populations of Romania and Bulgaria is less then 29 million, that's a very easy thing to look up and when pressed they never showed any evidence for there claims. When you say something you know not to be true or continue to say something when it has been pointed out to be false you are lying.

Furthermore since the obstacles to Romania and Bulgaria where lifted the number of immigrants from those nations to the UK has actually fallen.

"A LONG, BORING, RAMBLING JOURNAL THAT DOES NOT REQUIRE TOO MUCH THINKING ON MY PART"

Well you were mostly right except that this is not a journal its a comment. Journals belong on your own page otherwise its just pointless spam. If you can't be bothered to actually comment then I'll just remove it.
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:iconmynameiswhite:
mynameisWhite Featured By Owner May 28, 2014
(it says on google that back in 2012 Romania had a population of 21.33m and Bulgaria had a population of 7.305m, however big it is now.. it doesn't seem that far from accurate anyway...)
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:iconmiles4:
Miles4 Featured By Owner Jan 2, 2015
Even if it's not strictly inaccurate, it's misleading as hell. Look at the people in this very comment thread who read the poster and took it to mean that there would literally be 29 million Romanians and Bulgarians moving into the UK the following year. It's lazy math done to support the most alarmist phrasing possible, rather than anything reasonable like actually using some sort of estimate of how many could be expected to take up the offer.
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:iconskargill:
Skargill Featured By Owner May 28, 2014  Hobbyist Photographer
" it doesn't seem that far from accurate anyway...)"

So you really believe that the entire populations of two nations including there numerous Nationalist movements would move to Britain as the poster claimed?
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:iconmynameiswhite:
mynameisWhite Featured By Owner May 28, 2014
no i don't, but it does not say they would, it says they are allowed to. not all humans are desirable,
i don't know if you bothered to read my long journal entry - but that gives you some basic examples of how some people are good and some not so good - therefore i believe immigration should be managed better, so that those we DO let in are good people that we need and that will lift us higher.
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:iconskargill:
Skargill Featured By Owner May 28, 2014  Hobbyist Photographer
"no i don't, but it does not say they would, it says they are allowed to."

There are two things you can allow, a right or an immediate act.
Romanians and Bulgarians already had the right to enter the UK, so the only thing thing that could be allowed at the time were requests for entry. So yes the poster is saying 29 million alleged Romanians and Bulgarians would be entering the UK. That was disproved months ago and not just because its impossible.

"not all humans are desirable, "

Your living proof of that I guess.

"i don't know if you bothered to read my long journal entry"

Of course I didn't, if I wanted to read anything by you I'd go to your page were journals are supposed to go.

" so that those we DO let in are good people that we need and that will lift us higher."

So your objection is that a quotation about dehumanising is unfair because you don't believe the targets are worthy enough humans. Well in that case your wrong its clear that the quotation is even more appropriate then I originally thought.
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:iconmynameiswhite:
mynameisWhite Featured By Owner May 28, 2014
Why are you putting words into my mouth that are not true?
If you can't be bothered to even read that message then you won't know what or how I think will you.
You really are a very rude human being attacking me personally like that. You are 24, and while I know people here are generally maturing later these days, you do need to grow up a bit.
Also, you know very well what the poster says and means. It does not say they would enter the UK, it clearly says they would be allowed to. There is a big difference between saying those two things.
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:iconskargill:
Skargill Featured By Owner May 28, 2014  Hobbyist Photographer
"Why are you putting words into my mouth that are not true?"

I'm not, I'm pointing out the quite obvious holes in your comments. That's what debates are like. If you don't like it then do something else.

"then you won't know what or how I think will you."

Again, if I cared what you thought I would go to your own page and your own works. I don't so I haven't. journals go on your Deviant page for that reason.

"You really are a very rude human being attacking me personally like that."

You must have very poor manners if you think its ok to complain about something you didn't bother to read first. Or not see how arrogant it is to dump a Journal in someone else's space to try and make them read it.

"You are 24, and while I know people here are generally maturing later these days, you do need to grow up a bit."

Its also considered hypocritical to moan about someone else insulting you and then finish with an insulting in kind.

"Also, you know very well what the poster says and means."

Indeed I do, you are the one insisting otherwise based on nothing.

" It does not say they would enter the UK, it clearly says they would be allowed to."

Except as I've already pointed out to you, they already were allowed to enter so why does the poster refer to "next year"?

" There is a big difference between saying those two things."

Indeed there is, so I don't know why you insist on saying such an obvious falsehood.
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(1 Reply)
:iconmynameiswhite:
mynameisWhite Featured By Owner May 28, 2014
oh I didn't even read that lol.. maybe its an old poster? 
see I am not being scared by big numbers, because my thoughts on immigration are based on what I have pasted above,
and I had them before I had even heard of UKIP!
Oh yes, i imagine with the tension, and everything else (like some of those crazy tv ads, and talk of reforms) that it would have done.
But your quote about it'll make us forget they are human not fair, because the issue is bigger than the individual.
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:iconskargill:
Skargill Featured By Owner May 28, 2014  Hobbyist Photographer
"oh I didn't even read that lol"

So you commented registering a disagreement when you didn't even know what it was you were disagreeing with. Your not very brig are you.


".. maybe its an old poster? "

???No it isn't, it was there major campaign tactic in the run up to the elections, you support a party but don't know anything about what it's actually doing, hey.

"and I had them before I had even heard of UKIP!"

Yeah UKIP has a proven track record of attracting nutters.

"But your quote about it'll make us forget they are human not fair, because the issue is bigger than the individual."

So my quote is unfair because its accurate hey?
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:iconmynameiswhite:
mynameisWhite Featured By Owner May 28, 2014
well, you know when you look at something quickly? skim reading?
:)
I read the quote underneath the poster, its easier to read without my glasses.
Yes, so what does this poster say that is SO terrible and wrong compared with other party posters? (people like to single out UKIP)
they say this many people can come. you know that British people aren't so stupid that they would think "wow 29m are going to come" you don't need to worry about that sort of misinterpretation. Those that interpret it like that would surely be a small (not too bright) minority.
Your 24? me too :)
OK, so why am I a nutter, what have I said that is so wrong and crazy? did you read my thoughts in that journal? what is wrong about that?
No lol. XD whats the example I use to explain this.. ok, not don't get funny about the example I am using, its the only way I know how to say what I mean:
you give food to a starving child in Africa (without as much going into long term solutions - so that they wont need our help.) so that child doesn't die. then that child grows up and produces 4 more starving children. - this is what happens when people focus too much on the individual and not on the whole / bigger picture.
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:iconskargill:
Skargill Featured By Owner May 28, 2014  Hobbyist Photographer
"I read the quote underneath the poster, its easier to read without my glasses."

So what? by your own admission you were complaining about something you didn't bother to understand before hand.

"Yes, so what does this poster say that is SO terrible and wrong "

The fact that its a lie, its based on dehumanising two entire nationalities as a threat.

"you don't need to worry about that sort of misinterpretation."

Ah, this again. How exactly do you know its a misinterpretation, did you make the poster? Or discuss the issue with the person who did? You didn't even know what the poster said until I pointed it out to you, so it's strange how quickly you became an expert on it.

"OK, so why am I a nutter, what have I said that is so wrong and crazy?"

The fact you keep stating the view that humans are superior or inferior to each other which is eugenics, an idea that's been discredited since the 1930's.

" only way I know how to say what I mean:"

Then find another way because what you said was irrelevant, ridiculous and still incredibly dehumanising.
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:iconmynameiswhite:
mynameisWhite Featured By Owner May 28, 2014
Now your doing that again - putting words in my mouth.
I looked at it briefly. This gave me the understanding I needed. I came on because people have been saying a lot of bad things, singling out UKIP, calling them racist etc.  and I wanted to share the oppositions view point / angle so that people could see things from a wider perspective. Not just from one side = narrow.
I like to represent people, so that people can be understood.
Dehumanising? I don't think its fair of you being so narrow minded. Look at quality of life / minimum wage, these things naturally raise concerns.
Ok, quote my on that poster, it saying 29m WILL come. If it is not there, than that is not what it has said.
Your the one who told me its saying one thing, and I can't see where you are getting that from.
Actually dear, I am not saying we are superior to anyone, I am saying that not all humans are needed, decent, will do all of the things that I talk about IN MY JOURNAL. You need to stop misinterpreting me I think. My thoughts are clearly expressed in my initial post.
Dehumanising? all I have done is given you an example of how focusing on the present and individual can have negative effects on MORE people in the future?
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:iconskargill:
Skargill Featured By Owner May 28, 2014  Hobbyist Photographer
"Now your doing that again - putting words in my mouth."

Bit hard to do when I'm quoting you at length.

"I looked at it briefly. This gave me the understanding I needed."

If that were true you wouldn't have kept changing your comments...

"I came on because people have been saying a lot of bad things, singling out UKIP, calling them racist etc."

Well for starters I haven't called them racist, so you clearly didn't have the understanding you needed and still don't. This is also one of over 300 deviations I've made and the only related to UKIP. And here's the thing it isn't actually about UKIP itself, the poster image is an illustration of the quote. So if that's really your main gripe then you really have come to the wrong place.

"and I wanted to share the oppositions view point / angle so that people could see things from a wider perspective."

Then do it on your own page, that's what deviant art accounts are for, your own content. The comment boxes below deviations are for discussion of the Deviation above it. So everything you've written that is not about the deviation is just self centred whinging on your part. Which is why I'm ignoring it.

"I don't think its fair of you being so narrow minded. Look at quality of life / minimum wage, these things naturally raise concerns."

Funny I don't see either topic mentioned in the poster.

"Ok, quote my on that poster, it saying 29m WILL come. If it is not there, than that is not what it has said."

We've already been over this, you just ignored it and continued to deny it. Why would this time be any different?

"Your the one who told me its saying one thing, and I can't see where you are getting that from."

And your the one that keeps telling me it says another, and I've repeatedly pointed out why what your saying is impossible.

"Actually dear, I am not saying we are superior to anyone,"

Whose this we? I'm pretty sure my comments were addressed to you and you alone. Also if you didn't mean  superior then why did you say this? "but that gives you some basic examples of how some people are good and some not so good "

"I am saying that not all humans are needed,"

Ok, so how did you determine whose needed and who isn't without resorting to a comparison? Just because you didn't use the S word doesn't change the fundamentals of your argument.

"Dehumanising? all I have done is given you an example of how focusing on the present and individual can have negative effects on MORE people in the future?"

But you didn't give me an example you made something up, something that had nothing to do with the topic and in real life doesn't work the way you described it anyway.
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:iconmynameiswhite:
mynameisWhite Featured By Owner May 28, 2014
my thoughts come from MY experience, that is why when i heard of UKIP, i became interested in, and voted for them, i wasn't scared into doing it, which is kind of what everyone keeps saying. But how can that be true when many of us already has these concerns?
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:iconryu238:
ryu238 Featured By Owner Dec 20, 2013
Amen.
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:iconmaster-of-the-boot:
Master-of-the-Boot Featured By Owner Dec 20, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
Sounds like Fox news to me
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:iconzucca-xerfantes:
Zucca-Xerfantes Featured By Owner Dec 20, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
'Your government is allowing mass migration into the country and is not doing anything about it except for giving them free money, free education, free housing and free food while simultaneously cutting down benefits for the men and women who have fought, bled, died and suffered for you. We think this is wrong so we're alerting you, the citizen, to it.'

Yup. Actually it does. >_>

And that's a good thing.
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:iconskargill:
Skargill Featured By Owner Dec 20, 2013  Hobbyist Photographer
I thought that was too obvious.
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:iconthelightswentoutin99:
TheLightsWentOutIn99 Featured By Owner Dec 17, 2013  Student Writer
Couldn't I make the same argument if you objected to having 29 American tourists camp out in your room? I don't really see the dehumanization you're implying with the combination of the poster and the quote.
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:iconskargill:
Skargill Featured By Owner Dec 17, 2013  Hobbyist Photographer
No as a matter of fact you couldn't, your example involves trespassing and serial overcrowding so it isn't at all the same argument. Though it does still imply that those 29 tourists are less then mine and so are less human then me so you got the dehumanising aspect.

"I don't really see the dehumanization you're implying with the combination of the poster and the quote." Really you don't see what's dehumanising about referring to two entire national groups as threatening hordes? Well that's to bad but that's your own personal failing. The message of the poster is very simple "Fear the foreigners" if you can't see how that's dehumanising then I feel bad for you.
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:iconthelightswentoutin99:
TheLightsWentOutIn99 Featured By Owner Dec 19, 2013  Student Writer
"... two entire national groups as threatening hordes..."

Where does this occur in the poster?

"The message of the poster"

No, your interpretation of the poster is "fear the foreigners." Don't piss on me and tell me it's raining.
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:iconskargill:
Skargill Featured By Owner Dec 19, 2013  Hobbyist Photographer
"Where does this occur in the poster?" Right at the top there, your writing to me in English so I know you can read English, I can only assume your pretending not to understand to try and prove your point.

"No, your interpretation of the poster is "fear the foreigners."" Bollocks, a poster made about an alleged mass migration of foreign groups in a explicitly negative context and its my interpretation? Yeah right. If it is my interpretation then all I've done is interpret it in the manner in which it was intended. Whereas you on the other hand seem to have interpreted it as a warning against tourists.

"Don't piss on me and tell me it's raining." Here's a thought hows about you practice what you preach? Turning piss into rain is literally what you're doing here. Or at least what your trying to do it's clear your not very good at it.
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:iconthelightswentoutin99:
TheLightsWentOutIn99 Featured By Owner Dec 20, 2013  Student Writer
"Right at the top there"

Where? Do you mean the large text or the tiny corner piece?

"...an alleged mass migration of foreign groups in a explicitly negative context..."

I'm not sure what you mean by this, though. Your interpretation of the intended meaning =/= intended meaning.
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:iconskargill:
Skargill Featured By Owner Dec 20, 2013  Hobbyist Photographer
"Where? Do you mean the large text or the tiny corner piece?" It's very obvious what I mean.

"I'm not sure what you mean by this, though. Your interpretation of the intended meaning =/= intended meaning."

I really doubt that, because if that is true that means that you don't know that images have intended messages. I think your just playing the fool intentionally now.

You see your very first comment shows you also know that "an alleged mass migration of foreign groups in a explicitly negative context" is correct because you said this

"Couldn't I make the same argument if you objected to having 29 American tourists camp out in your room?"

Why would you object if you viewed the situation positively? You have also interpreted the poster to have a negative attitude. Its only after I disputed it that you started playing the "That's just your interpretation" card. Which is very odd since it would be an interpretation that we both share. And you still haven't bothered to show why this shared interpretation is incorrect.
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:iconthelightswentoutin99:
TheLightsWentOutIn99 Featured By Owner Dec 21, 2013  Student Writer
I'm not asking you to agree with my interpretation. I'm asking for you to justify yours.
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:iconskargill:
Skargill Featured By Owner Dec 22, 2013  Hobbyist Photographer
I have done several times, why don't you justify yours?
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:iconzucca-xerfantes:
Zucca-Xerfantes Featured By Owner Dec 20, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
Woah there, images, as you know, can have different interpretations. You're holding it as having an absolute meaning here.

The poster is expressing concern over a sudden, massive influx of people coming into the country! It's not saying 'When they come in, treat them like dirt' It's saying 'Your government is not listening to you'.

You wanna see REAL propaganda with REAL clear meaning?

Why, I'll even provide translation for you since you seem to lack a basic grasp of visual interpretation...

www.utdallas.edu/~bxc044000/im… 'Say "No!" to American merchandise!'

www.ccis.edu/courses/HIST102mt… 'America is an amalgamated monster of many faces, they're lying when they say they're here to liberate you!'

nickholdstock.files.wordpress.… 'The chairman is looking out for you. Yay China!'

upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia… 'The Japanese are waiting for you to take the day off to stab you in the back. Keep working and work hard!'

See? That right there is propaganda.

This poster you've got up there warning people of the massive influx of non-citizens that will impress upon an already tax-heavy country is just that. An alert for people that their government cannot do the will of people.
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:iconskargill:
Skargill Featured By Owner Dec 20, 2013  Hobbyist Photographer
"Woah there, images, as you know, can have different interpretations. You're holding it as having an absolute meaning here."

Yes they can, but they still have an Intended interpretation, otherwise they wouldn't have been made. That is the point I'm making here. An advert could have a thousand and one interpretation but I doubt anyone would seriously dispute the statement "buy me now!" is the intended message.


"The poster is expressing concern over a sudden, massive influx of people coming into the country!"
? So on the one hand your saying this poster has many different interpretations and yet you feel confidant enough to tell me what its really about, all while disputing my interpretation of the poster? Do you see the contradiction here?

If you believe that every image has many different interpretations all of whom are equally valid that's fine. But you can't say that and then start elaborating on your own interpretation as if that is the correct one, that's just hypocrisy.

"Why, I'll even provide translation for you since you seem to lack a basic grasp of visual interpretation..."

I lack a grasp of visual interpretation, but you apparently not only know that each image has thousands of interpretations and have the unique skill of being able to sift through them to the one true meaning... You appear to lack a basic grasp of logical consistency.

Oh and you know what you've just said is an admission absolute meaning right?

"This poster you've got up there warning people of the massive influx of non-citizens " Yeah non citizens, what's a non citizen? Someone who doesn't have equal rights and status of citizens, and since they are human high lighting there lack of citizenship would be dehumanizing trait. Which is what the quote is about so you have in effect proven the appropriateness of the posters use. You have my thanks.

"An alert for people that their government cannot do the will of people."

Now this is just funny, not only are you apparently able to correctly interpret images (is that like diving spirits?) but you can also interpret the will of an entire nation based on that image. I'm sure its only a coincidence that the posters meaning and the will of the British people happening to be in line with your own personal views.
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